STREET FIGHTER x TEKKEN

[7ayat]

...it's pretty dumb to see a ken just air hurricane, and the risk/reward of that is faaar more advantageous to Ken than his opponent...

So don't let him do that :>

PS chyba dziś jest dzień na patch...

It can be stopped once or twice rarely, it's a high priority move with huge attack hitbox and little vulnerable hitbox, but even if you hit him you get just one hit, while he can get a full 50% or more combo on you if he hits, and it crosses freely. And he does it out of your range and when it's active it's very hard to beat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBFG-NjqG2c Grand finals shadowloo showdown

[Snake]

Air tatsu gets blown up by most characters' jump back jabs/shorts, but yeah, the risk/reward ratio of this move is overall too much in Ken's favour, I agree on that. Of course I'm talking about mid range, because I don't mind getting mixed up by it on wakeup, especially when I've been given an option to roll away.

Hayat, I don't have any problem with people complaining about the overall balance of the game, i.e. character specific stuff (auch as air tatsu, dive kick, whole Ryu and Raven as characters), because I can agree on most of that. And even when for me balance is one of the least important factors when it comes to making the game good or bad (some of the best fighting games ever had terrible character balance [no, I'm not talking about third strike lol]), I can see it being a huge deterrent for many players (then again, for me way too many characters are way underexplored right now).

The point is, most people cry about things that in reality are non-existent problems in this game (such as assist gems, which only fucking matter anything when playing online). I wrote about timeouts a few posts ago, so I don't want to repeat myself (tldr: a) it's just another meter you have to take into account all the time, so in that sense it's different than in sf4 b) people are doing incorrect combos right now and have terrible meter management). When it comes to jabs, first of all, you have numerous ways do deal with them if you really, really don't want to keep blocking them, which I have no idea why you wouldn't (people are just allergic to blocking nowadays I guess): mash DP like sf4 taught you, backdash, alpha counter etc. Secondly, two of the four characters people mostly complain about when it comes to jabs are Cammy and Rolento, where Cammy would be total ass if she didn't have a good jab (she still is, but the jab definitely helps her) and Rolento has always been traditionally based around his jabs, so you can't really complain about him because that's what the character is about and that's what he does the best (he doesn't even have a reliable way of opening people up). I can partially agree on Ryu and Raven, but it's more about the characters being so good and well-equipped that they don't need a very strong jab pressure, than the jab itself (jabs where good in many capcom games before that).

Not even Marvel needed such extensive patching.

Ok, maybe from a Phoenix player point of view, it really didn't need.

[Qjon]

b) people are doing incorrect combos right now and have terrible meter management).

But even on highest level timeouts aren't as rare as in other FGames; look at the fight posted by Hayat: for 16 rounds there were 3 timeouts and 1 round determined in last 6 seconds - so almost 20% of the rounds were ended by timer. Does JWong also have poor meter management and sloppy combos? Because "that is the reason why timeouts happen in SFxT".

And even when for me balance is one of the least important factors when it comes to making the game good or bad (some of the best fighting games ever had terrible character balance [no, I'm not talking about third strike lol])

So c'mon, tell us your legendary definition of good fighting game.

[Snake]

No 3 time outy na 16 rund, naprawdę mega dużo. Na NCR podczas całego top 8 timeoutem skończyły się tylko 3 rundy. Skoro ludzie nazywają tą grę "jab x timeout", to dlaczego tekkena, w którym 50% rund kończy się przez juggle, nie nazywają "juggle"? :F Poza tym stawiasz to tak jakby w timeoutach było coś złego, a nie ma. Gdyby było to po ~20 latach tworzenia bijatyk ich twórcy w końcu nauczyliby się, że nie wstawia się zegarków do gier. To tylko jeden ze strategicznych elementów, dlaczego ludzie potrafią narzekać na to że jedna na ileś tam rund skończy się timeoutem, kiedy nie narzekają na to, że przeciętnie jedna na trzy rundy kończy się jakimś combosem? Get the fuck outta here with that scrubbiness.

So c'mon, tell us your legendary definition of good fighting game.

Nie ma czegoś takiego. Chodzi po prostu u dłogość zdrowego życia gry na scenie turniejowej na dłuższą metę. Dlatego nie da się stwierdzić tego czy gra jest dobra czy nie przy krótkim czasie jej istnienia, bo chodzi głównie o to, czy gra zda próbę czasu (można jedynie stwierdzić czy gra jest solidna czy chujowa, oceniając w miare obiektywnie poszczególne jej elementy).

[7ayat]

So first you go on about how you don't care about balance, and when I said marvel didn't need EXTENSIVE patching, the thing you pick on is the balance. The mechanics of Marvel 3 are totally fine and not an issue detrimental to gameplay. Such things as assists not counting for hit deteoriation and TAC meter change were modified, and SF4 just had balance updates. If it was just character balance I can live with it, I've played games with ranging balance, but the mechanics are messed up and not thought out well. You don't even need to be playing a turtle style in SFxT to reach the timeouts, while even in SF4 or Marvel if you played a turtle style it's rare to see the timeout. I used to main vanilla Sagat and had nowhere near the timeouts I've encountered in SFxT just by turtling, or even using M. Bison. Timeouts are an essential part of the game so it doesn't drag too long, but please show me an example from other fighting games (ranging from KOF to SF) in this generation where timeouts are so prevalent. It's poor design since not enough time was factored in, and you can't even snapback the opponent to kill, Tekken Tag Tournament has it done right, Capcom are dumbasses about it. And I didn't even get into gems.

And yeah, I know air tatsu gets 'blown up' by jump back jab/short, but you get 30dmg or something vs. his reward of 500 dmg or something? Just today on stream we were playing and Di flashkicked my air hurricaning kick and I beat him clean from the front, not a crossup. BS

[Snake]

The thing is I don't think of vanilla Phoenix as a character, more as some bullshit game mechanic that forces you to change your entire gameplan too much. There's no such thing in almost any other fighting game. But ok, let's say she's a normal character, you're still left with dhc glitch (which I loved, but was essentially broken) and overall bullshitness of the game, if that's even a word. ;]

Honestly, the only feature this game has that deserves to be hated on is this whole DP into tag BS.

[7ayat]

The thing is I don't think of vanilla Phoenix as a character, more as some bullshit game mechanic that forces you to change your entire gameplan too much. There's no such thing in almost any other fighting game. But ok, let's say she's a normal character, you're still left with dhc glitch (which I loved, but was essentially broken) and overall bullshitness of the game, if that's even a word. ;]

Honestly, the only feature this game has that deserves to be hated on is this whole DP into tag BS.

Even vanilla marvel, with its bullshit, still heck ultimate with its bullshit, delivers FAR more hype and fun than SFxT. Ultimately a fighting game should be judged not only for competitiveness, but fun. SFxT is missing out on fun factor due to stupid system factor.

And why is DP into tag BS? 

[Snake]

I don't know, there are still many people who have fun playing this game. It also can be pretty hype and fun to watch, check videos from Civil War finals. Of course I'm getting pissed off while playing this game very often, but not to a bigger degree than when I play marvel or AE - well, maybe a little more than in marvel, because in both sfxt and ae when I lose, I know that it was my fault, in marvel you often do nothing wrong and just die (yes, I fucking hate marvel, dunno while I'm still bothering with this game ). More than this game, what pisses me off is what Capcom is doing with it, nerfing characters who aren't even top tiers. I mean WHAT THE FUCK?

Also, there is one thing this game does definitely better than AE and marvel - it doesn't have any shitty built-in comeback factor.

Btw. Justin and Ricky are already crying about Rufus nerfs. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/may/16/justin-wong-and-ricky-ortiz-comment-recent-nerfs-rufus-dive-kick-street-fighter-x-tekken/.

I also think that the dive kick nerf was a bit too severe (especially the frame advantage), but I'm happy, because for one finally I won't have this "could've fucking pick Rufus" feeling when losing whit Xiaoyu, and two because Justin made me mad. He can find the time to innovate with some new characters and create some fun teams in marvel (like the Felicia/Frank/Nova team), a game that has been around for over a year now, and here he just goes with what he knows and what is cheap. Well, good for him. ;p

[7ayat]

Reason most of them are going with 'what is good and cheap' is most of them don't like the game and are just playing it since there's competition and what not. Only point this game has going for it is no comeback factor, and not really a strong point saying 'there was hype at Civil War 4!' while in general AE/Marvel have far more hype in every tournament.

And yeah this was the way Yun was nerfed regarding his dive kick, feel it's severe? Land it meaty so your frame disadvantage is reduced but then be free to reversals and have a hard time mixing up since you have to do it early. Sucks if you play the character...but that's a nerf. 

And one more for SFxT, besides 1/8th meter auto-block gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=suWtSPuKiRs

WE IN THERE!

[Snake]

Ok, just put Rolento in sf4 like IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING, and I can happily forget about this game.

[7ayat]

Ok, just put Rolento in sf4 like IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FROM THE BEGINNING, and I can happily forget about this game.

He's in there, just locked and will be released when PS Vita version of AE is released. 

[Vipe]

Gdyby było to po ~20 latach tworzenia bijatyk ich twórcy w końcu nauczyliby się, że nie wstawia się zegarków do gier.

Nie nauczyliby się

because in both sfxt and ae when I lose, I know that it was my fault, in marvel you often do nothing wrong and just die

interesujące, AE tak, ale reszta....

[VanDarkholme]

Guys guys, listen... I've seen a lot of shitty games in my life, and sfxt is one of them!

[Ryld-PL]

Ciągle tego nie rozumiem, wszyscy piszą o tym że SFxTK jest słaby i w ogóle dupa i gówno, a jak na razie nie padły w tej dyskusji żadne konkretne argumenty, oprócz tego że 7ayat jest słony na air tatsu Kena...
Ludzie to jest inna gra a wy w kółko patrzycie na nią przez pryzmat AE, albo starszych sf-ów, albo zaakceptujecie ten fakt i nauczycie się w to grać, albo odpuście sobie bitki.
Inne nie oznacza gorsze...

[Hiryu]

argumenty

-Nerfy/Buffy z tyłka (w tym zwieram wspomniane air tatsu)
-Cyrki wydawnicze
-Gemy(jeśli można zaznaczyć online, żeby gra nie wybierała do walki ludzi używających gemów, to odwołuję ten minus)
-Glitche tak śmieszne, że aż smutne

To tylko przepisałem zbiorczo z tej jednej strony. Nie chcę, żeby ktoś mówił, że tę grę hejtuję. Bądź co bądź, nie wolno mi tego robić.