SSF4 dyskusja ogólna

[Dadrot]

Nie nie widzę bo nie tak napisałeś wtedy, chyba też nie pamiętasz własnych postów z psx extreme. Generalnie widzę, że jesteś hipokrytą i w dodatku lubisz wyciągać pochopne wnioski i bezpodstawnie obrażać ludzi. Ponadto jeśli ktoś tutaj ma zbyt wysokie mniemanie na swój temat to na pewno nie ja.

[Kejim]

I tak oto temat "ssf4 dyskusja ogólna" zmienił się w  "super chat fighter 4 turbo ex + alpha Ukyo vs Dadrot edition"

Round 1...

FIGHT!

[Patosław]

infinite combo wisi w powietrzu...

[Dadrot]

Nie ma co dramatyzować, pewno ukyo miał zły dzień, nawet prosom się zdarza, nie róbmy więcej offtopów

[Snake]

Omg, premiera została przełożona z powodu jakichś dużych problemów z dystrybucją. Wstępny termin to końcówka czerwca, lol. Crapcom... ;/

Jak w SSF4T dodadzą A-groovea i Dyktator dostanie dp+P a jego malowanie ściany będzie na tym samym poziomie trudności jak w CvS2 to zacznę grać w tą grę.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCMWjt0EonE

haha, beskitu

[maddest]

Snake nie masz skilla w nabieraniu ludzi na Prima Aprilis

[Snake]

Liczą się chęci, c'nie? Za rok będzie lepiej, dzisiaj jestem niewyspany.

[TasTer]

Trzeba było ze mną zagadać byśmy to jako newsa wrzucili 

Dzisiaj powinno ukazać się kolejne combo movie z sonichurricane - dotyczące Fei Longa i Gena.

[Fazza]

Dzisiaj powinno ukazać się kolejne combo movie z sonichurricane - dotyczące Fei Longa i Gena.

Niezła próba TasTer. Prawię uwierzyłem

[apolon]

ale to chyba nie joke: http://sonichurricane.com/?p=2283

[TasTer]

Lol
Oczywiście, że to nie żart. Info o tym było dostępne przedwczoraj.

[maddest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SSRR7-uKiU&feature=player_embedded

Specjalnie dla Fazz'y , "Prima Aprilis"

[Kejim]

Character changes and impressions

Abel:
New Ultra 2 is good, great for messing with fireball characters, plus it has Super Armor. Can be delayed and Canceled into. It's a grab and moves about as or slightly faster than his old Ultra. Can't combo like his Ultra 1 though. Probably still in the same tier rank as before (mid high). Comments that overall the balance is much better in SSFIV.

Adon:
Is geared towards being more newcomer friendly. Doesn't really have a lot of tools, a lot of 50-50s but the consensus is that once the matchup is understood he shouldn't be a character we'll see a lot in tourneys.

Akuma:
Is pretty much this games S-Tier. Exactly the same except loop isn't gone, just much more strict. Fewer hits will land and can only seem to pull it off 2/10 times. Fireball does far less damage. Standing Hard Kick's has been damage nerfed too.

Balrog:
Some of the changes seem to make no sense because they pretty much changed nothing at all. Because of all the nerfs his matchup against Sagat is now probably 5-5. Generally a lot of his bad matchups got better and his good ones might have gotten better. Talks of top 5 (Note: there seems to be a lot of people in the top 5) Ultra 2 is completely useless. No range, slow, pointless.

Blanka:
Virtually unchanged. Still highly dependent on shenanigans and people not knowing the match up.

Cammy:
Ultra 2 (counter move) is a joke. Ultra 1 is still the best. Cammy has a lot of potential, has been improved a lot. Will probably see her in tourneys more.

Chun-Li:
Ultra 2 (Super Fireball) is insane. Can be landed from a lot of different situations. Top character for sure. EX-Lightning Legs into Ultra 2 combo does a lot of damage. Other than this Chun-Li hasn't changed otherwise. Because of U2 she has gotten much much better and is probably in the top. Ultra 2 isn't a charge move, but a motion command.

Cody:
Absolutely fantastic character. When Hell first played Cody he approached it like he was playing Alpha 3 but kept losing. The "Bingo" (Zonk Knuckle) move, hold down punch for a few seconds and let go. Seems to beat a lot of moves clean, combos, and then setups Ultra opportunities. It seems to be the move with most invulnerability. It seems to actually beat Zangief's Lariats. Bad Stone is a really powerful projectile. It's fast, almost no recovery, you can feint, you can delay it. He has a lot of really good normals, has some really damaging combos. General consensus is that he's a top tier, probably in top 5. Seems to place behind Ibuki and Dudley. Will probably be the new Ken online. Knife: 4 Light Punch link takes off 125 damage. Triples the range of his normals, chips and increases priority.

C. Viper:
Almost nothing has changed. The main difference is she won't die as quickly to Sagat and others due to damage nerf. Ultra 2 is matchup dependent, mostly to counter anti airs like Shoryukens, to keep shotokan characters from spamming anti airs. Hard Punch, Super Jump Cancel, Hard Punch into Ultra 2 seems to work, but not very damaging. Seems to be nearing top 10, some say top 5.

Dan:
No longer the worst character. Has a FADC combo that does 450. His Fireball has much better range. The Dan Kicks have some uses (like it crosses up for example).

Dee Jay:
Seems like he's a good Guile. Solid, not likely to have any really bad match ups. Has the tools to deal with most characters. He has good normals, good Ultras. Being a charge character is holding him back a bit (joke about motion characters having an advantage in Street Fighter 4) but otherwise he will essentially be what Guile should have been. The crumple stun off of his kicks were removed. It was completely broken. Now he's pretty average but solid.

Dhalsim:
Ultra 2 is a grab. Still kind of bad. Didn't get the changes he needed.

Dudley:
Is close to being the best character in the game but not quite. Has insane wakeup game, great tools. His overhead is the best in the game. His damage output rivals Sagat's in Street Fighter 4. All of his specials are good. His Focus Attack is one of the fastest in the game. His Shoryuken (Jet Uppercut) is strange, and probably his weakest move. Normals have very little range (compared to Balrog). His Light Punch does seem to have good range and very fast. If he gets in he will destroy you but might have difficulty doing it. Akuma's keep away and escape ability might give him a lot of trouble. Akuma and Ryu might be bad matchups. Based on this he might be in the top 5. In the corner good luck getting away from him. Not only is his overhead good but he can actually combo from it, including a Link into Crouching Hard Kick! Lots of back and forth about his character not being quite Sagat Tier. 1050 hp for Dudley. Apparently his Light Punch Jet Uppercut, Hard Punch Jet Uppercut into Super hurts a lot, but only in the corner. And you can't hit confirm it.

El Fuerte:
Has 950 hit points now. Ultra 2 changes a lot of his game. Does about 500 damage, and startup is only about 3-4 frames. It moves forward quickly as well and it's a grab. Basically it punishes almost everything. They changed some of his priorities and hitboxes. His loop is much harder to do.

E. Honda:
Pretty much the same. EX-Headbutt has invulnerability now. Ultra 2 is a command grab, pretty damaging but works like a beefed up Oicho Throw. Hundred Hand Slaps can probably be FADC'd into Ultra. It's not a combo though, it's a 50-50 but because his dash is fast this can be really good.

Fei Long:
Pretty much the same. Chicken Wing (Flying Kick) has less priority, startup invulnerability and might be punishable. Because of the changes to the game he might fare better.

Gen:
Jump is less safe now, more floaty, similar to Ryu. Gen used to be able to abuse of his old jump arc against other characters like T. Hawk could.

Gouken:
Indications are he's more or less the same. His Ultra 2 is much better and can be comboed from a lot of moves, much better than Ultra 1 (like from Running Palms and EX-Hurricane Kick FADC).

Guile:
A lot of joking around about his sunglasses. It's useless and seems to be his only significant change. there seems to be some changes to his normals. Making SSFIV offensive and nerfing Sagat and Ryu will help him as well. More competitive. Sonic Hurricane can be used as anti air. His Ultra 1 has been improved too (they don't say how), Flash Kicks are improved, seem to have more range. His place in the tier list probably won't change much but he might go up a bit. Still destroys M. Bison for free.

Guy:
Lots of potential. Evades projectiles with shoulder charge. Ultra can be comboed into. Target combo juggles. Might be possible to FADC the last hit into Ultra. This hasn't been tested though. Hits pretty hard, has good wakeup options with his Hurricane Kick, it has good invulnerability on startup, he has good throws, good pressure and all around solid character with good mixups and dominates in the corner. He seems to have some really bad matchups though (not indicated which ones).

Hakan:
Is a love him or hate him character. Very peculiar fighter. Oil completely changes his game. His throws gain 3 times the range and his normals have stupid range with oil. If you can get into your opponent's mind he will devastate but will lose to rushdowns who keep him from oiling up. Can't compete against Ryu or Akuma. Probably mid tier. Like Blanka, if you don't know the match up he will destroy you but once you figure out it will be pretty even. His Ultra beats pretty much any move where you're considered airborne.

Ibuki:
Comparable to Street Fighter 4's Akuma. Seems to have vortex like Akuma. Good mixups on wakeup, does good stun. Can actually combo into her Ultra with Super Jump Canceling her target combos. She's more technical, like Viper, but can be really scary in the right hands. Seems like a cross between Viper and Akuma in that regard. She has 900 hit points overall so she will die quickly. This makes her one of the trickier characters to use. Top tier definitely. Juri is powerful but possibly boring to use. Ibuki is more complete and more fun to use.

Juri:
Seems to be very promising. Joking that the Custom Combo Ultra (Feng Shui Engine) basically makes her link all her normals into each other, kind of like Ryu in Street Fighter 4 but without requiring good timing. Spin Kick is excellent for pressure. Very complete, fairly powerful, and relatively simple character. Spin Kick is similar to Bison's Scissor Kick or Sagat's Tiger Knee in that it's fairly safe on block. Pretty powerful. Custom Combo, just screwing around they got a 390 damage combo, and still had bar remaining. So her Feng Shui Engine can be very powerful once its potential can be fully discovered. You can probably land a few of those combos per Ultra. Land a combo once, get a knock down, do a mix up and then land another combo for another 300 damage (more or less).

Ken:
His Ultra 2 goes through fireballs from mid screen. Air EX-Hurricane Kick can also help set up his Ultra 2. Focus Cancel EX-Fireball into Ultra 2 does about 450 damage, timing is strict and it uses 3 bars. Sweep is faster, not quite as good as Ryu's. Walk is very slightly faster. His Fireballs have same recovery but they move across the screen faster which means the Crouching Medium Kick into Fireball is more likely to combo. His Shoryukens have better priority. Mid tier most likely. Dash is slight faster. So is his Focus Attack. Apparently Capcom has a sense of humor. One of his win quotes says something like "You're as easy to read as a flowchart"

Makoto:
She has changed the most relative to her Street Fighter 3 Third Strike incarnation. She has lost options but she has better normals and seems to be more solid. She will take a while to get used to. She seems like she will be competitive. The Kara-Karakusa (Grab and Choke) is in the game. She is purely offensive, all or nothing character. She can now do a lot of her Kara mind games like in Third Strike. She can Kara-Karakusa from Hayate (Dash Punch) so the defender has to guess properly now instead of regaining momentum by default. In the right hands she can be really scary. She isn't top tier. Reversals being powerful in Street Fighter 4 kind of ruins her game relative to Third Strike but she still has potential.

M. Bison:
Significant improvements. Damage was nerfed a bit but nerfs all around to Sagat and Ryu help a lot and his Ultra 2 is great. Full screen. Looks like El Fuerte's but has different properties, it's faster, and actually useful. Can be done on reaction against fireballs and crosses up. Can be jumped out of however. It's not a throw, it's a hit (similar to his Head Stomp) so it can be blocked. This is especially good against Shotokan characters. Once he has Ultra it shuts down most fireball games and it hits hard enough to be scary. Psycho Crusher has a full body hitbox, it's much faster and it does more damage. Possibly might be higher ranked than Cody. Not top 5, but definitely going up in tiers.

Rose:
Has gotten better. Can combo into Soul Throw.

Rufus:
Damage is now much much more reasonable. Joking about how he isn't quite as brain dead as he was. EX-Snake Strike and EX-Messiah Kick have been scaled down considerably. Ultra damage nerfs have hit Rufus harder than others because of how he was played. His Ultra 2 doesn't seem that good, few setups. He's still high tier.

Ryu:
Basically the same. The major difference is the loss of a lot priority. Both Hard and Medium Punch Shoryukens do 2 hits and only first hit is Cancelable. Trade into ultra is still possible but only under certain cases. It's no longer free, but possible. Also can't Cancel into his Super as long as a Fireball is on screen so no more traps for characters neutral jumping fireballs (otherwise doesn't seem to change much). Damage is slightly nerfed but nothing really dramatic. There's a damage nerf across the board. Not as dramatic as Sagat. (Those who stayed the same are Honda, Balrog and Guile) Ryu remains top 5. Ultra 2 (Metsu Shoryuken) doesn't seem to be as good as Ultra 1 (Ultra Fireball). Its only use seems to be in relation to the discovered unblockable. Its use is more aesthetic than anything else. No real reason to use it considering how versatile Ultra 1 is.

Sagat:
Sagat has 1050 hp confirmed. Used to be make 2 mistakes against Sagat and you were dead. Now it's more even. Almost all the damage off of his moves has been considerably scaled back. Mid range Tiger Knee seems to take off 20 to 30 instead of 100. He's lost 50 hit points and he has had some of his tools taken away. In Street Fighter 4 he's got a huge hitbox, prone to crossups and he's slow. That hasn't changed. So those who will want to win with Sagat will have to earn it. He's still very competitive but you can't just eek out a win like you could in vanilla. He's lost his really abusive tactics. Basically noobs will cry a lot and those who know what they're doing will still do very well. Has a new evasion tool (angry scar). Has super properties: freezes time, ups the damage of his Tiger Uppercut to what it used to do, minus 10 damage points. Also changes some of the properties of the Tiger Uppercut, for example he can combo into some things which couldn't before. Most of his Kara moves seems to still be in. Can still land Standing Hard Kick, but it's dependent on how deep you trade (probably character dependent). Tiger Uppercut wasn't nerfed as much as Ryu's Shoryuken, at least if you do them from a crouching position. Shoryukens don't dominate as much. Overall Sagat won't change that much in terms of tiers. They've just been compressed somewhat. He will probably have at least one bad matchup. Ultra 2 seems to be only useful against projectile characters. You can throw it out on reaction against midscreen fireballs.

Sakura:
Has her Jumping Medium Kick cross up back. Can combo into Ultra. She's more aligned with her old self. However she won't improve much in terms of her tiers. She needed a lot more to compete and didn't get anything.

Seth:
Life is the same but since other characters do less damage he's in much better shape. Seth had a lot of really bad and a lot of good match ups. His Ultra 2 means that off his combos he can do a lot of damage and makes him much scarier. Command grab does more damage. He can land Ultra 2 from a lot of things, like where he used to follow up with his Chun-Li Kicks he can now use Ultra 2.

T. Hawk:
A joke about there being a pink Hawk. He has the biggest hitbox and most life in the game. 1150 hit points, hits like a mack truck. Can fly around the screen and has some ridiculously damaging combos. The command throw has some ridiculous range. Everybody had more or less dismissed Hawk as a joke character but based on tests it seems that he will have some really good and really bad match ups but overall pretty competitive. He has trouble getting around fireballs but against characters who have to get in, like Dudley, he is very scary. Jumping Light Punch and Standing Light Punch tick loops from Super Turbo are not possible. There's a whiff animation but it might be possible to option select, it's not clear yet. T. Hawk can be scary.

Vega:
Ultra 1 hits on the way up like EX-Wall Dive. Easily one of the best Ultras of the game. They say that making a mistake and you will eat the Ultra. 2nd Ultra is also pretty good. It has good range and priority. His normals seem to have better priority. His fake overhead in vanilla is now an actual overhead. Not very damaging but useful.

Zangief:
Life has gone down, Lariat is much easier to punish. Normals do less damage. Banishing Flat (Green Glove) does less damage. Ultra does less damage. Ultra 2 has some uses. He's still a dominating character however. His Lariat is still scary and his match ups probably won't change much, if at all. He won't kill you in a few hits now.

More general comments:

? Better stages. Africa is awesome, lots of things going around in the background. Great music. Seth's stage is really nice too, better music.

? You can now hear all the remixed classic themes but Capcom went about it in a half assed way. You you have to actually change icon and your title in order to hear the themes. Apparently there's no actual option to hear them. Correction: You use the default icons to enable the classic themes.

? Bonus rounds are useless. It's there to please noobs, but they're garbage.

? Discussion about how Capcom is trying to balance its two types of consumers, hardcore and casuals. Bonus rounds are a concession to the latter group.

? All characters are unblocked up front.

? Seems more competitive in general but certain things cater to noobs.

? Having a SFIV save unlocks the 11th color. You still apparently have to unlock others. They haven't seen it however.

? The intro and ending animations haven't really improved much. Joking about Hakan's story, apparently completely absurd.

? Time trial and Survival are gone. Challenge mode is a disappointment. Old character challenges are the same, or at least seem to be. Can be done in any order.

? SSFIV overall seems to be one of the most balanced games Capcom has made. Capcom's claims that everyone was going to be Sagat tier. Rather they brought down the top and compressed the tiers more.

? Things that used to be really abusive are more or less gone.

? New characters however do not seem to have been considered in the overall balance. They seem to do a lot of damage and have a lot of tools. Furthermore because they're so offensive they seem to mesh a lot more than the vanilla SF4 characters.

? Turtling won't dominate as much in Super. Still useful for certain characters but it's not the dominating tactic it was in vanilla.

? There seemed to be a lot of back on forth on the subject of Dudley. Some people were saying he was the new Sagat and others saying he wasn't quite that good and he's probably on par with Akuma. Either way Dudley is going to be very good.

[ornit]

Na ogół dobrze jest podać źródło...

? SSFIV overall seems to be one of the most balanced games Capcom has made. Capcom's claims that everyone was going to be Sagat tier. Rather they brought down the top and compressed the tiers more.
 

LOL Szczerze kto to napisał ? To jak zbalansowana jest gra okaże się najwcześniej po 3 miesiącach...Pomijając, że nie wyjdzie na automaty to połowa g....a nie wypłynie nie wcześniej jak po roku

Jak wyszedł sf3rd to podobno Amerykanie myśleli, że Q jest top-tierem...Nie mówiąc już o tym, że nikt nie grał na Genei-Jinie Yuna ani lusterkach Uriena. Podobnie było z rollcancelem w CvS2.

[Dadrot]

Wiadomo, ale z drugiej strony sf4 był testowany na automatach przed relisem na konsole przez kawałek czasu.. i babole i tak były, część z nich wypłynęła całkiem niedawno nawet lol (setupy na unblock ultry). Mam nadzieję, że dobrze zrozumiałem słowa setha K. o możliwościach paczowania, byłby to chyba pierwszy produkt capcom z tak przyjętą polityką (balans patche jak w rts np). Czas pokaże.